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Featured articleAustralia is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 16, 2005.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 28, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
June 22, 2005Featured article candidatePromoted
June 29, 2010Featured article reviewKept
Current status: Featured article

Native languages in Infobox

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I suggest that we add a "native languages" section in the Infobox like what is in the Infobox in the article about India. In this section it would say "250 languages" wiki linked to the Australian Aboriginal languages article. Would do you think? Zakary2012 (talk) 08:37, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted this because it has been discussed before and the consensus was that it is a complex issue which is best discussed in the article rather than the info box. Different sources give different estimates of the number of Indigenous languages because there is no agreement on what is a distinct language and what is a dialect. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have you got a link to that discussion? I wasn't able to track it down from a cursory search.
With the obvious caveat that I haven't read the previous discussion mentioned though, I do think it would be worthwhile having some recognition to the presence of indigenous languages across the country. Perhaps if the number itself is the ambiguous part, we could mention a range (and include a note if necessary to explain that the total number is up for debate?) Turnagra (talk) 00:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where is this supposed discussion then because I can't find it anywhere? It would be great if you could actually back up your claims and give a link to the discussion you have referenced. Zakary2012 (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Talk:Australia/Archive 21#Languages of Australia. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:50, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm assuming it's this discussion? That doesn't really seem like something super strong and worthy of protecting if there is a better discussion that results in an inclusion - I'm seeing a lot of single line comments from low-use accounts rather than actual discussion.
I totally understand the issue with the range of different figures, but I think that's easily remedied by giving a range in the infobox as mentioned and don't see that as grounds to not include something there. Turnagra (talk) 07:36, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Infobox will never contain full details of native languages. That's no what Infoboexs do. Create a brief but accurate summary of the situation, and propose it here. HiLo48 (talk) 07:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not proposing full details. If you read my message, what I'm proposing is we give a range, and perhaps an explanatory note. For example, that section could say "250 - 363 languages" with a note that says something along the lines of "Different sources give widely differing figures, primarily based on how the terms "language" and "dialect" are defined and grouped", as per the equivalent in the infobox on the India article. Turnagra (talk) 08:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about the tens of thousands who speak Mandarin almost exclusively as an actively used first language? Or Korean? Or...? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how that's relevant to a section of the infobox entitled "Native languages". Turnagra (talk) 08:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's relevant because if we put in a range of indigenous languages (not "native" languages) with a complicated footnote then someone else will insist that also add all the "community" languages spoken in Australia with a complicated footnote. This isn't speculation, it has happened in the recent past and was discussed and rejected. The info box is supposed to be a quick summary of key information from the article. It is not supposed to include complex information which is best explained in prose in the article. MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE. By the way, estimates of living indigenous languages actually ranges from about 20 upwards. The 250 figure is the estimated number of languages at the time of European settlement. The high number of 300 plus are mostly dialects and mostly not living languages. I just don't see the value of a ranged figure such as 20 to 300 plus. It's better to read the article to see the complications. But I tend to be an info box minimalist. Let's see what others think. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:13, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I was going off the section in the India page and didn't realise the term could be changed. But I don't think that's really a concern, there's a pretty clear delineation between indigenous languages and minority introduced languages of specific communities. As for the point about range, I'm sure there would be enough of an agreed upon main range - there will absolutely always be outliers in both directions, but we should look at the overall number. Alternatively we could just be clear that we're basing it off a single authoritative source but acknowledge that there is discrepancy and disagreement on the number - the 2018-19 National Indigenous Languages Survey seems like it could be a decent option, which found 123 languages being spoken. Turnagra (talk) 09:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure adding more language links meets infoboxpurpose, but if it is added I would not include the range. See Brazil for example, which provides a link without a number to its recognized indigenous languages. CMD (talk) 10:25, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Zakary2012 I reverted your edit. Please don't try to force through your preferred version of the infobox while the issue is still under discussion. You have no consensus for your proposal. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an aside, @Turnagra and @Zakary2012 manage to ask the exact same question; of whether they can have a link to the discussion, but Turnagra asks it very politely and respectfully and Zakary asks it in an accusatory and rude way. Would be nice if we could all be respectful in discussions like this. GraziePrego (talk) 07:56, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024

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Add Oxford comma to the note about territory claimed in Antarctica. 64.189.18.51 (talk) 16:46, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Tollens (talk) 19:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted this as Oxford commas are not used in Australian English except to avoid ambiguity. Also on my reading the article does not consistently use oxford commas.

Just to be clear: I think this needs to be discussed. As with most articles, you will probably find that it has not been used consistently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aemilius Adolphin (talkcontribs) 21:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, thanks. I wasn't aware that Australian English had a preference against it. Looking more closely you're right that it isn't consistently used in this article, somehow on my skim through originally I only saw cases where it was used, my bad. Tollens (talk) 06:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2024

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Change listed Governor-General from David Hurley to Sam Mostyn following Governor-General Mostyn’s swearing in today. Ted86 (talk) 00:35, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. HiLo48 (talk) 00:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maps

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There needs to be some decent maps, more clearly showing the state boundaries, location of cities and towns, roads and so on. Ther eis nothing like that. 74.127.201.90 (talk) 14:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead, making it a summary of key points

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Hello all

I have made a bold edit and cut a number of long lists from the lead including the list of every state and territory, every major city and every industry. These don't belong in th lead: that is what the article and links are for. The articles on the US and Germany don't list every state and every big city and every industry. I have also cut the list of landscapes and climates. Isn't it enough to say Australia is megadiverse?

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting lists is good, the lead is a summary of summaries. CMD (talk) 11:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]